Friday, January 19, 2007

Why do Christians hate peace?

It intrigues me.

People profess themselves to be moral, loving, upright, Christians and then they go about denying every possible precept and shouting down those who speak up to say that the world could be more loving, accepting, caring and just.

I do not judge these people. They are quite welcome on the road to peace. They are worthy, excellent human beings.

One just wonders where the problem lies, exactly.

I am often told to live in the "real" world.

Yet, even science has yet to find this place. The world, as far as logic and science can take us, is just about as unreal and fanciful as it could possibly be.

This "real" world is also filled with people saying "Be true to yourself!", "Love one another!", "do the RIGHT thing".

We do not seek riches, we seek the "real" world. Many of us share what we have with others when we can.

We are not perfect people. Far from it. But many are open to all possibilities of life, and open to all different kinds of people; Fat, thin, rich, poor, injured, blind, ugly, pretty. Doesn't matter.

Stand up for these people! Stand for inclusion! Welcome all comers! Preach the gospel of PEACE!

And you're shouted at. Stolen from. Made fun of. Belittled.

Of course that's what the bible says would happen.

It's just weird seeing it come from people who claim to base their life on the book you got these ideas from in the first place.

Do any Christians agree? Disagree? How about other faiths? or Non-faiths?


Dave Barrett said...

I share all the sentiments and questions you raised in your post.
A question I have is why some very vocal Christians in this country feel their religion is being attacked when Christian displays are not allowed in public places but those same Christians do not feel their religion is being violated when they find out innocent people are being tortured and murdered in their name and paid for by their tax dollars?

QCMediaGhost said...

Instead of wasting your precious earthly time seeking the ‘real’ world, why not enjoy what you have today? Our heads are so cluttered with words and liberal phrases and unattainable goals that the few ‘trees’ to happiness are obscured. Your only goal is to drag everyone into the mire of confusion; the ‘misery loves company’ cliche comes to mind.

Dave Barrett said...

What interesting remarks! I gather from what you wrote that you view Christian moral precepts such as to be peacemakers, helping those less fortunate, healing the sick, etc. to be "unattainable goals" that can only bring unhappiness to those trying to live by them. Is that right? Is that what you believe?
I further gather that you view political conservatism and religious evangelicalism as currently espoused and practiced in the United States as being permission to throw off those burdensome obligations without guilt (somewhat in the way that Paul wrote in the New Testiment of the Jewish Law as being a burden from which Jesus had released those who believed in him). Furthmore you seem to be inviting those of us still trying to live by those burdensome Christian precepts to join you in throwing them off and become, like you, much happier than we currently are. Do I understand correctly what you were suggesting?

QCMediaGhost said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
QCMediaGhost said...

Mr. Barrett: Please tell us what you did today (01/20) to back up any one of the passionate deeds from your comment above; or is the trail of syrup from the left side of your mouth just the track of a Libbie talking point? Ghost

Dave Barrett said...

I gather from your response that you actually do feel guilty for not doing more to promote peace, help the less fortunate, feed the hungry and heal the sick. That means you are not as free of those "liberal" ideas and probably not as happy as your initial remarks would suggest.

In answer to your question I also feel guilty for not doing more. There are people who do more than I do in that regard and people who do less. Since I do not blog annonymously I cannot be more specific because to do so would violate the privacy of some of the people my wife and I are helping.

I gather that you are not going to answer my question about whether you view being a political Conservative and religious evangelical as meaning never having to say you're sorry.

QCMediaGhost said...

Only ‘guilt’ drives you to help the less fortunate, as if it’s some kind of sick contest? Who is keeping score? Ghost

Dave Barrett said...

Who keeps score? Not me. You were the one that asked the question. All I claim for myself if that I try to live by the Christian precepts of being a peacemaker, helping the less fortunate, etc. and feel guilty that I did not do more. Your remarks seemed to be saying that you had thrown off those "liberal" precepts, no longer even trying to live by them and were feeling less guilty and more happy and as a result. Since you did not say that clearly and I had to infer that from what you wrote I was asking you if I understood you correctly. Your subsequent remarks imply (at least to me) that you do feel some guilt so I am still in the dark about what your initial remarks meant.

DookOfURL said...

Michael, the "Why Do Christians Hate Peace" meme is one of the things that make Christianity so toxic to people like me.

I was raised in a Christian (conservative Lutheran) home, but when I became an adult and saw the schism among Protestants, I turned away. Every Christian denomination claims to be the one true religion.

Your idea that no Christian could believe/think/say/do (x) and still be a Christian, or that only true Christians believe/think/say/do (y) is what alienates so many of us from your religion. Yet you and those like you claim to be "inclusive".


Nobody Called Today said...

Christ was never as much of a pacifist as you like to portray him. Sure he said blessed are the Peacemakers. But his teachings also included the statement there would be Wars and rumors of Wars until the end of time and that his followers should not concern themselves with this worry. Throughout the Bible War and Violence is often instigated by God as a means of justice or retribution, through his “hardening of the heart” of leaders. In the bible the government had controls of certain aspects of history and life, their necessary control of war, taxes and the governing of the land were a recurring theme in the bible. In the parable of the Whore he admitted that by law the fallen woman should be stoned to death for her transgressions, but his point was that no one there was worthy to make that judgment of her transgressions. In one repeating subject parable (if you are not feeding Gods word, then you are failing the God and the needy) he cursed and destroyed a fig tree in a fit of temper for being barren when he was hungry. (Of course as is the case with different sects, I have heard other translations of that parable.) Nor did he chastise or lookdown on the Roman soldier who requested help for his sickly daughter. He accepted the soldiers’ role in society. If Christ was the pacifist you paint him to be, them Peter or any of his followers would not have been allowed to carry weapons. And it is clear by the fight scene in the garden that at least part of his followers carried weapons. Violence and retribution is present even in the teachings of Paul, when God strikes down individuals for lying about their tithing. Though the New Testament does not embrace War or violent retribution like the Old Testament, it still acknowledges it is part of existence and not always as a negative.

Sean McKee said...

Christian's should hate peace if you must choose between peace and injustice.

Have you read Matt 23 where your pacifist Jesus is calling the religious foke a bunch of hypocrites, serpents, and a generation of vipers and telling then they are full of dead man's bones?

Or how about in Mark 11 when he was turning over tables in the temple?

Jesus was a peace lover but he was no pacifist. He allowed injustice to be done against himself for his Father sake but he did not tolerate people using and abusing the "least of these".

Socialist Christian Hippie said...

He absolutely was a pacifist.
I am sorry. I accept many teachings of Jesus, but the idea that Jesus was not a pacifist is ludicrous.

The fig tree he destroyed. Not a person. The soldier he supported, as would I, strongly, one cannot judge, but Jesus did not kill.

Jesus had the power to destroy the Romans through military might, but he destroyed himself! How pacifistic can you get?

Jesus said for his followers to not concern themselves with wars or rumours of wars. Exactly. There is no point to them. Simply focus on the Kingdom.

Yes, the old testament is full of wars. That is before Jesus came. If one believes Jesus is the way, one must believe in "Loving your enemies", "Turning the other cheek" etc.

Yes, he overturned the tables at the temple, and he drove the crowd out. He hurt no one, and killed no one doing this.

He said to his followers when they attempted to take up arms against those who came to arrest him "He who lives by the sword, shall die by the sword" Then he healed the one wounded person in this "battle".

I'm sorry. I'm all for drawing your own interpretation. And I am not one to shun those who believe differently, but I really cannot imagine how one can think that Jesus was NOT a pacifist. It seems to me his whole life could be nothing but a repudiation of Earthly powers, death, and suffering.

I am for acceptance of all, again. You don't have to be accepted by Christ to find love in any community that I hang with. I have no test for you.

That doesn't mean I won't argue or offer my beliefs as to what I think is right. I invite argument. I enjoy discussion. I just see "Jesus is a pacifist" as an open and shut case.

thejadedfool said...

i would have to say that i agree with socialist christian hippie... god is love... therefore... jesus is love incarnate... he was love made flesh and blood... to show us the way of love and peace... this does not mean that jesus was without passion... we see this passion in the turning of the tables... the acts being committed were acts of self-centeredness and greed... jesus was passionate... as should we be... when we look at the acts of hatred and violence around us... we should be moved... we should cry out against the injustices... the acts of hate against man, beast, and this planet...